Raising Teen Girls

00:06Hi everyone, welcome to Baby Steps Nutrition, a podcast that focuses on nutrition, health, and wellness for families of children of all ages and stages. I'm your host, Argavan N., a pediatric dietitian and mom of two young children. My goal is to bring you impactful information that you can apply every day in a simplified, practical form to make life easier.

00:34Now, let's get into today's conversation. On today's episode of the Baby Steps Nutrition Podcast, I have on my friend, Arin Bass, who's a licensed family and marriage therapist. And I'm going to let her do the introduction because you're just that awesome and I can never do it justice. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

01:00Um, I, yes, I am an MFT, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Um, I've been practicing for 15 years and last year, 2025, I launched a holistic therapy group practice in Marin called Heal Marin. Um, and my mission with that practice is to serve women across the lifespan from adolescence through young adulthood, adulthood, um, to support them in their body image struggles, eating disorder, recovery, disordered eating, um, challenges.

01:41And really just support like girls and women, um, in the journey of what it means to be female right now, um, in this world. Um, so to support them throughout life transitions, um, academic and work, stress, relationships, friendships, self-esteem and self-worth building, um, and just help support women and girls in leading more like authentic and fulfilling lives.

02:19Yeah. And you're a mother to two younger girls. Yes. I am a mother to a teenage daughter. Yes. And I recently heard you give a talk about how parents, especially mothers can support their teenage daughter. And that also goes with supporting ourselves and how we can do the work that we need to do in order. It always starts with us, right? Yep. That's right. I love that old saying, put your own oxygen mask on first.

02:49And the reason for that is that if you're good as the mom, then you can show up for your kids in a more grounded, healthy, loving way. We can, and we'll dive into that more, I think a little. Yeah. And something that I've experienced with my own daughter and her peers is there is truly so much pressure that is on these kids. I mean, it comes from everywhere and even we could have the best intentions, but even we knowingly or unknowingly put pressure and therefore stress onto our kids, the community, schools, their friends, social media.

03:27And it is a lot for that developing brain and body to handle. And so this is one of the reasons why I really wanted to have you on both as a professional, but also as a friend, because I know we're keeping it real today. So thank you again for being here. I love that. My pleasure. So happy. What would you say is the biggest emotional struggle that teenage girls face that we often underestimate as caregivers?

03:59Well, I think you just nailed it. It's that pressure, that unintentional pressure from family, friends, that I think the teens end up internalizing. So I sit with a lot of teens who say that they themselves have tremendously high expectations. And sometimes it's hard for them to trace it back to where that originated.

04:28But I think that, like you just said, pressure is everywhere for them to look a certain way, to act a certain way, to have a certain type of body to achieve, both academically and in extracurriculars, sports, whatever that may be.

05:01And I think that, like you said, even though it's well-intentioned from loving and high-achieving parents, what happens for the teens is that they internalize this without it being conscious. It's a subconscious process that happens. They don't have, like, conscious awareness that they've internalized the need almost to be perfect, to be accepted in their lives, in all the different parts of their lives, school, social, peer, family.

05:47And that contributes to anxiety. So they're kind of learning, like, how to navigate in the world. And they're creating a belief system, again, subconsciously, about their self-worth. So self-worth is why we think we matter, what we believe about why we matter ourselves, our own self.

06:18And what this does, this constant pressure, these really high expectations, this perfectionism, this constant striving and achieving and then moving the goalpost, what that does is it erodes self-worth. So the minute any of those things crumble, or let's say there's a mistake, which to an outsider, it may not even look like a mistake, but to the teen herself, may feel, like, fatal.

06:53She has nothing to fall back on. And this creates tremendous anxiety for the teens. Yeah. And you said perfectionism. And, you know, as adults, we try to be more aware of progress, not perfection. But you're right. The teenage girls always get that messaging of if you're not perfect, then you're not good enough.

07:18And so it's this constant strive to be perfect and anything less is unacceptable. Right. And it can be. It may not even be perfectionism, may not even be that overt. It might look like fear of making mistakes, fear of making, like, subpar, like, meeting subpar standards, even though she herself may have set those unbelievably high and potentially unattainable standards.

07:52So it's an experience she has where she feels like she can't kind of keep up with the demands. Yeah. And teenagehood, we know, other than toddlerhood, is a big stage in life for emotional, physical change. And so for girls who are going through that, whether pre-puberty or they're full-on in puberty, how would you say that those physical changes and body image affect their mental health well-being?

08:27Yeah. Puberty is a really hard time. It's also around the age 11, 12, when a teen first can have, like, awareness of her body as this thing that is – can be, like, separate from herself. And so I've heard a lot of teens tell me, like, around age 11, you know, they looked in the mirror for the first time and, like, saw their body as, like, its own entity.

09:00And they have this other awareness that kind of clicks and turns on around this age, too. They start noticing other people's bodies as well. So that's appropriate. That's developmentally appropriate. But interestingly, around this time, we know that there are hormonal fluctuations which cause changes in physical appearance, which are appropriate.

09:25So a female body in puberty is going to put fat tissue on new places, a tummy, the hips, the butt, thighs, breast and breast development. And that's all really appropriate. That's what the body is supposed to do. However, I think this can cause upset and confusion for a teen, and it can affect her self-confidence and self-esteem and kind of, like, create some new insecurities, especially in the modern age

10:05that we are in with this, you know, massive digital social media and regular media access at all hours of the day. With this other awareness, the self-awareness of the body and these changes, teens end up comparing themselves. They're comparing their bodies to other bodies.

10:31And they're getting information from, you know, a variety of people on all of the social media platforms that they should look a certain way. That's a, you know, that's called a body ideal. And so they may start getting looped into this constant comparison trap.

10:57And then, you know, back to what we talked about just a moment ago, self-worth in our world today is so heavily tied to appearance. So teens can feel the need or the urge to change their bodies in order to conform and that they're not worthy of X, Y, Z unless they look a certain way.

11:23So this can really affect emotional well-being. It can cause anxiety. It can cause like a dip in mood, frustration, irritability, even sometimes like powerlessness, like a sense that they just have kind of to control their body in order to get what they want, which again can contribute to like just a lack in self-esteem.

11:52Yeah, and being a mother to a teenage daughter, you know, we went through our own phase, but you have a different sense of understanding when you're raising a child because they mirror it back to you. And it is amazing, this deep desire to fit in, right? As women and we get older, we're all about owning your truth and being unique and authentic. But when you're a teenager, you want the opposite. You want to fit in and you want to be like everybody else.

12:18You don't want to be the one that stands out. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, you're bringing up a good point that, right, like teenagers, you know, the experience of adolescence is kind of like finding your people, being socially, being accepted into different, all the different friend groups. And that's also biologically appropriate if we're looking evolutionarily based.

12:46Um, that's, you know, the group fitting in with the group ensured survival. And so this is a time for teens to become independent, start to take on some more responsibility and start to separate away from the family of origin, which is all appropriate. Um, but there's a significant emphasis put on, um, being accepted and belonging and, um, teens can kind of like alter their sense of them, of their self and conform in order to be accepted.

13:21Yeah. And let's talk about that piece you just mentioned about pulling away. So a lot of families of teenagers will admit or say, my kid doesn't want to hang out with me. They just want to hang out with friends. So I'm going to give them lots of space, but we also know that teenagers do still need that connection with home and their loved ones and their parents, especially. So what can parents do not to intentionally push their children away?

13:52How do we find that fine balance? I, I think that there's, um, yeah, I think balance is the, um, keyword here. So I think at this stage, parents forget that their child is going through a momentous shift and may still engage with their new adolescent as though they were a little kid.

14:22Um, and that sometimes can look like some over controlling and controlling behavior, um, hovering or being intrusive and disrespectful of teens boundaries. Um, I think parents try to fix and problem solve when really what she needs is just somebody to listen. Um, and so I think that parents need to acknowledge their adolescence urge and desire, which is really appropriate to establish their own sense of themselves.

14:58And the way that they do that is by kind of going out into the world and actually making some mistakes, um, um, and parents can think of themselves as kind of the net that they can catch their kid when they fall. Um, but there has to be a little leeway or space for the adolescent to be able to go out into the world and explore, um, and, and make mistakes.

15:28Um, and so what does that look like? Again, that looks like parents, not problem solving, not trying to fix it and give all the answers. Like if she's struggling with, you know, keeping up with homework, um, and she comes to you and says like, I'm so overwhelmed. I can't do all this. And she's up until, you know, midnight or 1am every night trying to get everything done. Um, it, it sounds more like validating, like, gosh, yeah, you're really busy right now.

15:57And I'm here to support you in any way that I can to get through this. And, you know, your sleep, a good sleep schedule is really important for, you know, the next day. Um, so let's, let's see like how I can best show up and support you as opposed to like, you know, maybe you should drop a class or just get it done or drop that sport so you can focus on your homework or don't go out with friends on the weekend so that you can, you know, write your paper.

16:28I think, I think teens, again, like they need to be able to, um, have some space to make mistakes and figure it out for themselves. Yeah. And so with that, how do parents know what's normal versus when they need to intervene? And seek therapy. So normal is, um, I, so I think of it in, in clinical language, it's frequency, duration, and intensity.

17:02So let's go kind of through each one of those frequency is how often is something happening and, and to make it kind of manageable, you can think about a week, um, or a month amount of time. So how often is she doing X, Y, Z during the week? Um, so let's, maybe let's think of an example, like going into her room, shutting the door and staying in there for hours without coming out.

17:37Um, and we don't really know if she's on the phone scrolling or doing homework. It's kind of like an unknown. So some, sometimes that's normal. She's going into her room. It's her safe space. She's taking a break. Uh, sometimes that's to be respected. Um, we all do it and that's okay. I think it's about how often is that happening.

18:02Um, and then we look at duration. So how long is this behavior enduring? So is this going on weeks, several weeks, months? Um, I would say by the time we hit, you know, several weeks, that's where we're already at the point where it's too long. Um, so, you know, if frequency, if it's a couple times a week and this is going on for two weeks, okay.

18:29It's, it's not necessarily a sign that something is going on, but if it's every single day, right, for a month, that is a flag. Um, and then we look at intensity. So how kind of strong, right? If you think of like coffee, like how do you like your coffee? Light, medium, dark, right? How strong and, um, and like, let's say loud is the behavior.

18:58Um, so is she going into her room and slamming the door and when you knock and say, Hey, how are you? And she's lashing out at you in anger, leave me alone, you know, and doesn't want to share with you what she's doing in there. Um, that is a sign of more higher intensity, right?

19:23If she's answering the door and saying, Oh, hi, you know, I'm just in here, like scrolling a little bit and then I'm going to get to my homework or I'm on the phone with a friend. Um, then, um, then, okay. Like that, that sounds like a little bit less intense, right? Lower intensity. Um, so those are the things that we look at. Um, the other significant thing to watch out for is any change.

19:49So any delta in her bio rhythms. Um, so the things that we all have to do to stay alive, right? Sleeping, eating, main, like major self-care type things, hygiene, showering, brushing teeth, getting dressed. Um, if there's change in any of those things, I would also say grades, like if, if grades start to, to dip, that can be a sign that something's going on.

20:17And then a really big red flag that most parents probably would already know is if a, if a teen is isolating, if they're constantly withdrawing from friends and family activities, like they're just alone a lot of the time, um, that is a serious, that's a sign that something is serious and needs to be taken seriously.

20:42Okay. And then how does one know when to probe further or just take what they say at face value and trust that they know themselves well enough that if they're saying they're okay, they're truly okay. Well, I think again, back to the way that I just answered the, that previous question, frequency, duration, intensity, changes, isolation.

21:08I think, um, yeah, they're again, balance moderation, right? And you're looking for how the teen will respond. So if you're probing like a, what does that sound like? What, what kind of questions are you asking? How are you probing and is it respectful? And then B, how are they responding? Right?

21:33Like, just get off my back. Like, leave me alone. Um, that kind of like defensive posturing might be a sign. Um, but if they're like, no, I'm good. I just need like a break. Um, you know, I'm just kind of like burnt out or whatever. I don't know if teens are really going to use that language, but they might just be like, I'm tired. You know, I just need to chill. That's my, maybe what it would sound like. Or they have an emotional outburst and then 15 minutes later, they'll come in, they'll apologize and say, sorry, I acted like that.

22:04You know, this is how I was feeling. So that has been one of my life bulb moments of, so you never know when the wave's going to crash, but you just have to step outside of your own need to be defensive and let it happen and see what happens after. Yeah. If she can circle back, that's pretty mature. That's a, that's a sign of like emotional maturity.

22:29Like she's probably doing pretty well and she may even be able to come to you and say, I am not doing well. I need help. Um, if she has that like capability already to own her lashing out, then that's great. You know, this is a time when teens, the hormonal fluctuations are really intense. And like one of my favorite parenting gurus says, um, you know, when the teen lashes out at you, what you can think to yourself is like, okay, sweetie, like you have been abducted by aliens.

23:02I'll see you when you're 25, right? Like she's, she's gone. Like, I'm not going to take that personally. Right. These are, this is adolescence. These are hormones talking here. This is not my kid. Um, and it's just like, kind of like a silly way to remind yourself, like she's just, her body is going through it. And there are some things that she's just not going to be able to control in that moment. And, um, that that's okay.

23:29That's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the toughest part is if the mom herself is going through perimenopause, perimenopause. And so those two things that collide create a tsunami. Yep. That's right. And yeah, this may not be like, uh, one of your questions, but I think like normalizing that, having those conversations for both the, you know, the female body changes consistently over the lifespan, whereas like a male body will change and then reach a plateau and stay more or less the same.

24:05So I think teen girls need to know, you know, that the female body is like appropriate, appropriately going to change, um, because of these reproductive, the onset of, you know, the menarche and reproduction, the reproductive years and child, you know, bearing and, and yeah. And then the perimenopause and menopause and just being, um, just talking about it and normalizing it, you know, yeah, we, as women really go through a lot where our bodies are always changing or hormones can fluctuate even month to month.

24:43Um, and that's, that's normal. Like everybody, every woman goes through this. Yeah. And I think compassion for ourselves. I mean, I'm saying this out loud, cause this is something that I try to remind myself of having compassion for myself when I have the mood swings, because of course, you know, we try to justify or we try to sweep it under the rug, but they are valid. Like we're going through our own struggles and work and all the pressures and stress that we have that we're dealing with.

25:13So of course, naturally it's going to come out in one form or another. Yeah. And I think you're touching on something really important. Um, mom giving herself compassion, right? So a nice solid practice of self-compassion. Um, and I love Kristen Neff for self-compassion practices. She's a researcher out of, you know, somewhere in the South, um, who's just done a ton of research on self-compassion and the three kind of tenants of it and how to practice it, how to develop that practice for yourself.

25:47Because if you can give that to yourself, then you can extend compassion to somebody else and vice versa. I think we as women are so quick to be compassionate towards others and really tough on ourselves. And so that self-compassion practice is, is really great to model for your teen. Um, and part of that can be for self-forgiveness, forgiving ourselves for when we make mistakes.

26:13And that's, again, we're trying to model to our kids and that we're not perfect and that the expectation is that you're not, you don't have to be perfect either. So I just, I just went through this, uh, a couple of days ago with my girls, I kind of hit my limit and I yelled, which I rarely do. Well, at least according to me, I rarely yell. They may say different, but I, you know, quickly circled back and repaired, right?

26:43It's the rupture and then the repair, just like a bone, right? You break a bone, you cast it. Um, and then I, and then I had to really work for the past couple of days on forgiving myself, like holding on to a lot of guilt. How could I do that to them? My time with them is so limited. I just want to show up as the best version of myself. And like, those things are all true and like I'm human and make, make mistakes and they do too.

27:12And that's part of what I mentioned in the repair, you know, I'm really sorry for how I acted and I'm sure that didn't feel good. And, um, you know, we all make mistakes. You're such a good kid and I'm a good mom and, um, we're in this together. And, you know, the last thing I'll add onto that is that I truly believe in is that there is really true value in change.

27:37Yes. So it isn't just allowing myself to constantly blow up at them and then apologize, right? It's like, well, I don't like how that felt. I really don't like how that felt. I'm committing to myself to do it differently going forward. What is within my control? Like I need, I need to get back to my own meditation practice daily that I know that that works for me.

28:03And I, I am in a time right now in my life where I'm really stressed. And so I had to sit actually this morning and remind myself, like, what can I do to really take care of myself so I can show up differently? Cause I don't like that. That did not feel good. And I was like, Oh, I need to get back to my self-compassion, my meditation practice 10 minutes a day. Like that, that is what works for me. And that's what I can commit to. Um, so.

28:28Yeah. And like you, I rarely yell, but you know, people that are close to me know if I raise my voice, they're like, Oh, she went from being even keeled and calm. She's upset. But even with my kids, they'll say, Oh mom, why are you so upset? And I'll say, you know what guys? I'm not upset. I'm just really tired. So I always have to decipher between the two for them because when I do that, they automatically like you said at the beginning, internalize that as we did something wrong and we caused this.

28:57And meanwhile, I have to explain the whole trajectory of the day that led to that point. And also maybe even saying like, you know what? I am upset. Like I'm tired. And when I'm tired, my bandwidth for staying calm is like shorter. And that's also really normal. Like when we're tired and stressed and sick, it's harder to like reach for those like grounding tools.

29:22Like we're just quicker to be upset. And like, you could even say like, you know, yeah, I am upset and that's my stuff. Right. And I'm, and like all feelings are allowed, you know, even moms get upset. Yes. Yeah. I love that. How you said that. Um, Aaron, you must've gained so much insight working with teenagers, having very difficult conversations that they most likely are not having with their adults.

29:51Um, if you could write a book or a pamphlet, what would be some of those insights that you would want parents to know that's going on in the heads of these teenage girls? Um, wow. That's a fantastic question. Um, you are the most important people to them in their lives and it's never too late to again, do that circle back and apologize and repair, and then do it differently going forward.

30:24Like your kids are constantly looking to you to understand their own place in the world. And that sounds, I mean, it's, it is significant. It sounds like, okay, pressure's on parents, but like, that's true. So, and again, modeling for them that you, you yourself don't have to be perfect and they do not have to be perfect.

30:51Like that's not the goal here because perfectionism and perfect are an illusion. They don't actually exist. Um, because once you achieve the thing, the goalpost has changed and then you have to achieve the next thing. And it's this loop that ultimately leaves people feeling really unfulfilled. Yeah. Um, so I think insights, um, would be that, yeah, like you are their number one.

31:21Um, even when they're mad, even when they're angry, even when they're frustrated, like they want closeness. They want community. They need you. Yes, exactly. Um, and I think, you know, to sound at the risk of sounding cheesy, like love is at the end of the day, um, the most important thing.

31:47And it's, it's also like, how do you express that love too? How do you connect with, with your teen? Um, how do you, um, like respect, start to respect that they are becoming their own person and that your wants and desires for them might be different than their desires for themselves and how to honor that difference and let, and like give them the space to be their own person and just really check in with yourself.

32:24Like, Oh, I don't, I don't like that thing that she's doing, or that could be as simple as like the outfit she chooses. And it's like, okay, you don't have to as long, I mean, as long as it's appropriate within your family guidelines, but like to give her the freedom to express herself, um, and give her the freedom to make mistakes and fail and learn from that, that you don't have to pave the way entirely for her success that, you know, growth comes from failure, um, and that,

33:05um, like rejection, disappointment, um, the more that she experiences those things, the greater tolerance she will build to them as well. Um, and that, um, yeah, it's just a really, I just would love to remind parents that adolescence is such a precious time for teens to, um, explore and be creative and try out different things and, you know, have a, have a color or flavor of the week that they love.

33:44And then the next week it's totally different. And just like riding that kind of wave with them every time. I love it. And then Erin, personal question for you, your mantra, your life's philosophy, words that you remind yourself the minute you wake up in the morning or the last few words you think about before you go to sleep. What are those?

34:08Ooh, that's a, another good one. Ergavan, Ergavan, wow. Um, mine are, well, when, when there's, when we're in the heat of the moment, uh, I, I do, you've probably seen me do this a couple of times, like hand to chest. That's, I kind of like have a, a, a wake up moment out of my feelings, right?

34:32It's like a tapping in to myself. Um, and then if, if there's a struggle or a conflict going on and there are some heightened emotions, my inner mantra is like, there's nothing wrong with my child and there's nothing wrong with me and I can handle this. I can handle this. So that's what I do in times of conflict.

34:57Um, at night and in the morning, I am really, um, big on gratitude practice that is, has been standing out to me in the past couple of years. And what that does is for me, it cultivates my own sense of self love. Um, so like, I'm grateful for my morning cup of coffee. I'm grateful for the sunshine today.

35:23I, I'm grateful for this roof over my head today. Like those are my three things. Um, and it's just such a, in, in and of itself, that practice is a constant reminder that like, I already have more than enough, more than most people on this planet. Right. I think we can get so swept up in like the bubble or the culture, um, of what we are in and surrounded by and really lose sight of like, what is important.

35:56Um, and that's what gives me a sense of fulfillment. And then self love is like, I'm not perfect. You know, like I have body image days that aren't great, but I still love and respect myself. Right. I'm not going to do anything crazy and to my body. I'm just gonna, again, give myself a little hug and, and like a little, like, wow, like a kiss on the arm and right.

36:24And like, I, um, can treat myself with respect even when I'm, um, you know, not at my best. I can, I can treat myself with respect because of, and in spite of my flaws, I accept myself fully for who I am right now in this moment, even if like, I don't want to, you know, I'm not ready to like throw on a bikini and like, I'm more than my body too.

36:56I'm so many things. Oh my gosh. I love all of that. Yeah. And where can our audience find you? There we'll be looking. Sure. Thank you. Yeah. A little self-promotion. I'm really bad at that. Uh, healmarin.com is my website for my practice. I'm actually working on a personal website where you can learn more about me, um, which will, which will be aaronbass.com, A-R-I-N-B-A-S-S.com.

37:26That's in the works. Um, and I have a couple handles. Uh, I, you know, I, it's a, it's a love, hate, push, pull with social media. I, it's a way to connect and touch and reach people. And I also have to be like really mindful not to get pulled into the spiral of scrolling. Um, so I'm just saying that out loud because I have to really be careful about how much time I spend on social media, but it's kind of like a necessary evil because I also think there's like some good that can come from it.

38:02So Instagram, Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn, um, Instagram and Facebook are healmarin. And then I've got a fun one on the side that I haven't used for a while, but a divorced working mom, um, it's kind of like a little more personal, but like open to the public. Um, yeah. So that's a fun one too.

38:27Awesome. And I'll include all of those in the show notes. I hate to say goodbye, but because we're friends, I know you're going to be back on. Yeah. So I can always keep this conversation going. I want to thank you so much for your time and your wealth of knowledge and just truly how warm and compassionate you are when talking about serious issues. So thank you for everything. And thank you for your friendship, Erin.

38:52Oh my God. Above all that means so much to me. Virtual hugs. Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here. I'm thrilled to be here. I really appreciate you reaching out and yeah, I'll see you. See you in real life. Yes. That's a blessing. And to everyone who tuned in, thank you as always until next time. Thank you for listening to the baby steps nutrition podcast with your host, Argavan N.

39:24We hope you enjoyed our deep dive into all the tips and tricks you and your family can use to make daily life a little easier. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to support the podcast, please leave a rating and review, share with others, and follow us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at baby steps nutrition podcast. As always, you can head over to baby steps, nutrition.com to sign up for our email list, as well as check out all the links and resources in the show notes.

40:00See you next time. Tune in. Feel great.