Bigger Hearted Parenting

00:06Hi everyone, welcome to Baby Steps Nutrition, a podcast that focuses on nutrition, health, and wellness for families of children of all ages and stages. I'm your host, Argavan N., a pediatric dietitian and mom of two young children. My goal is to bring you impactful information that you can apply every day in a simplified, practical form to make life easier.

00:35Now let's get into today's conversation. Today's guest is someone who has spent over 40 years at the heart of pediatric care, and even more at the heart of human care. Dr. Ron Schneebaum is a retired primary care pediatrician who has long recognized the profound role that love, connection, and compassion play in our mental and emotional well-being.

01:01Throughout his decades in practice, Dr. Schneebaum noticed a powerful pattern. When love isn't felt, self-worth declines and life's joys begin to fade. But rather than accepting that as fate, he developed a simple, heartfelt approach to help his patients. And now people everywhere understand their inner challenges and begin to heal. As a clinical faculty member at Dartmouth College Geisel School of Medicine, he taught medical students how to bring more heart to their care by connecting deeply with their patients' lived experiences.

01:37Now, as the author of Bigger Hearted, a retired pediatrician's prescriptions for living a happier life, Dr. Schneebaum has shifted from clinical practice to teaching broader audiences. He joins us today to talk about the lifelong impact of love, how to nurture compassion from the inside out, and while being bigger hearted might just be the most powerful prescription of all.

02:04You've spoken my language, and I'm so glad that you're here because there is so much that we know that we're going to be talking about. Thank you so much, Dr. Schneebaum. I get goosebumps. I get goosebumps during your introduction. That's really what it's about. It's about caring about each other and loving each other. I was thinking something a little bit different over the past couple of days. Michael Jordan, who is one of the great basketball players of all time, he had a coach at one point who said, you're incredible, but if you want to win championships, you have to make your teammates better.

02:37If we realize this notion of it's a dog-eat-dog world and it's about survival of the fittest, that's the wrong approach. As we make our teammates better, as we make the people around us better, and we do that through our caring, then we survive, we thrive, and they thrive. Yes, and I always say the greatest leaders of our time are not the ones that lead by power and ego. It's the ones that lead with love and that uplift everybody, right, because it's about teamwork.

03:05Yes, it is great to have some person lead the tribe. It's about how do you bring everyone together, bring out their best qualities, and then move through. Yes. Yes. I would love, actually, if you can start with your journey. How did you get here? Because you didn't start out in medicine. What sort of led you down that path? So, fate. Literally fate.

03:30I was an extremely lackluster student. As in, I stopped reading when I was 12. I never did homework. I never studied for a test. The only paper that I wrote in college was a three-page paper on the movie King Kong, and I handed that a plate. And then I ended up being a school teacher and had a master's degree. And then I thought, I didn't know if I wanted to teach, and I thought if I was going to continue, I needed perspective.

03:58So, I decided it was time for me to travel and see the world. And so, I worked in a logging camp in the Alaskan wilderness, and then I thought business would be interesting. And I thought the only place to do that growing up as a New Yorker was in Manhattan. And so, one day I was sitting, reading a newspaper, happily in my job in Manhattan. I had an apartment, and an ad fell out of the newspaper about a pre-med program at Columbia University for college graduates who didn't take the math and science courses you'd need to go to medical school.

04:31I had never thought of medical school in my life. And I saw that ad, and an image came to mind of somebody having a heart attack. And he was probably in his upper 40s, and I thought he'd clearly want to have a good position to take care of his heart disease. But he'd also have questions about, what do I do with my life? What does this mean to me? What do I tell my family and friends? And I thought he wouldn't go to a psychiatrist with those questions.

04:56He'd go to the same person treating his heart disease. And then I realized that being a physician is that combination of it being intellectually challenging and dealing with life's most significant personal issues. And I said, that's for me. And then what happened over time that I found very interesting is I realized that it takes two different kinds of thinking.

05:20We normally think of thinking as an intellectual process of the facts and figures and science and so on. But then I realized to answer people's inner questions, it takes thinking with the heart. And thinking with the heart is first it starts with caring and compassion. And then what you say, that's a door that lets you try to understand another person's position from their standpoint.

05:45And then if you say, how do I serve them? How do I help them? And then if you do that, then you have the balance of it being intellectually sound, interpersonally sound, and that's really what's most significant. So that when it comes to learning about interpersonal things, it really uses the heart to understand that. And that's what love, compassion, you know, if you think about if you think about your kids or anybody you're close to, you know, you know them through through your heart, you know them intellectually also, but you know them through your heart's experience.

06:15And that's what you feed. Yeah. And as you were speaking, I was thinking about this one example of this long term resident that I recently work with. And she just stopped me and said, I just have to tell you, you're really good at your job. And meanwhile, I'm thinking based on my knowledge of nutrition. And she said, well, that too, but you are actively listening to what I'm saying. And I said, well, I feel everybody should actively listen to whoever they're speaking with and they're interviewing.

06:42And she said, but a lot of people don't do this. No. And I told her, I said, but this is the part about listening is you can learn so much from somebody else. And you might be the expert, but you're also taking in a lot of knowledge and different perspectives that you can use to share with others as well. And what you say is so interesting in that a fascinating thing about listening is you could have something on your mind and have a friend who's a good listener and you tell them your problem and you feel better after.

07:12They don't have to say anything. You just feel better. And when I think about that, I say, what's that about? And I think of a picture of a boat going through a canal. So a canal has water at two levels. So one end is higher and the other is lower. And the canal has a series of chambers called locks. And the boat goes into one and then the water level between that one and the next one get equilibrated.

07:36And then the boat travels to the one after and eventually go through the canal. When you listen to someone, what you do is you start out at different levels. It's sacrificial in that your only purpose is to hear the other person. And that gets you on the same level. And the boat that passes through is love. Oh, my goodness. I love that. And so talk to us about I'm a parent of today's generation and it really can feel so overwhelming, not just with the amount of information online, all the noise.

08:06Right. Everyone brings their own perspective and their own conditioning to parenting and advice given to others. How can we start to feel better, more empowered about the decisions that we make? So less worrying, more empowerment. That's great. Right. So I was thinking just to put a little bit of a funny perspective. I was thinking of this today and I thought, suppose somebody said, how different is raising a puppy or a cat from the way it was 50 years ago?

08:34You'd say it's the same. So our kids haven't changed either. It's just all the societal pressures. So the basic things about caring and compassion and raising nice people, nothing about that has changed. So the couple of so what I think in terms of and I pondered this for years because I grew up fairly undisciplined, like I raised myself in a certain way. And so I didn't have any thoughts about what discipline is and what raising a kid is about.

09:03And and and I also am stubborn enough where I didn't like listening to what other people said. So if they said, do this technique or do that technique, I just didn't like that. So then one of the so I came to several conclusions in the end. On the one hand, if we if we focus on raising nice people, their lives will work out. Anybody who's a nice person will have good relationships.

09:30They'll find jobs they like. They'll be satisfied with their career, with their life. So it's really pretty simple. Like to raise a nice kid isn't that hard. Yeah. Yeah. And it comes down to being likable. Right. What makes you likable? Yeah. So so that, you know, yeah. So so. And there it's also it's getting a sense of nurture. Well, in nurturing your child's strengths and helping them where their weaknesses are.

09:58I had this impression I was talking about the nature nurture thing. And I said, you know, kids are all different. They're different. You know, parents will know that notice that from the very beginning. And so suppose you have a gardener and you have tomatoes and you have corn and you have squash. They're all going to grow to be very different. But as the gardener, what you want to do is help them be the best corn and the best squash and the best tomatoes.

10:24Yeah, I love that. And that's the power that we have. Right. As parents and as citizens of this world. Yeah. Yeah. And then the real bottom line is loving your kid, like not love, not smothering them, like just the way you love them where it just melts your heart. You know, it's the kind of love you have for them when they were tiny where it just melted your heart. Yeah. Yeah.

10:48I remember my mom saying about my kids once, I could eat you to death. It's like, yeah, she loved us so much. She couldn't stand it. So it's that kind of love where your kid knows that you always have their back. And along with that, it doesn't mean you have to be perfect. They can see past our shortcomings. We don't have to be right. We don't have to be right. And, you know, and then for all the challenges of the day there, two things are one is we have to grow because it's really about who we are as people that counts.

11:21And the other one is we have to figure out we have to figure out what we think about modern stuff. You know, what do we think about drugs? What do we think about drinking? What do we think about media stuff? And, you know, because without that, we won't be able to guide our kids through those things. Yeah. Yeah. And something I always say is, and I truly do believe this, but I, it always also goes back to what you just said. Parenting is harder than it's ever been before, but you're right.

11:47Raising those kids. It's the same kids that have been around for decades. So then I go back to, well, how can we filter through the clutter and the noise that overwhelm us? And like you said, just go back to the core beliefs, the core values, which are love and kindness and respect, communication. Yeah. And knowing that our kids are forgiven. I remember, I remember years ago talking with someone whose mother was a great mom, but also very strict in a certain way.

12:17And she said something about her, her mother didn't let her play loud music. So she could live with that. She could get around this. That's her mother's shortcoming, but that didn't affect the relationship and who she was. Because if they know you're sincere and you're genuine, that's all they need. Yeah. And we see a lot of adults who weren't seen and heard as children. Right. And the qualities that they develop as an adult or don't develop as an adult.

12:42And it always goes back to where you've seen and heard and where your needs met. That's the hardest part. I think that's probably the biggest thing that's difficult for us as parents. Because if we were, you know, if we were abused or not treated well, we don't have like the footing for how to go forward. But I think somehow if we spend some quiet time and think, what would I have wanted at this age?

13:12You know, what did my parents do that worked? Or what could they have done that I would have appreciated? And if we kind of use that a little bit, that can be helpful. Yeah. That's the first step I always say is the awareness. Right. We might not be able to jump ahead many steps, but if you have that awareness in that moment in time, then at least you're you're many steps ahead compared to other people. So start with that first step.

13:38Yeah, go ahead. I wanted to ask about your parenting approach. So it's centered on love. It's centered on common sense. But we know that word common sense is not always common, unfortunately. So talk to us about what inspired you to create it. So I thought about this thing really for like 30 years until I had a sense of what do I think this is about? And what I decided is that there are two things that we want to do.

14:06We want to help to make kids be strong in themselves. They feel solid and secure and, you know, they know what they stand for. And on the other hand, we want them to be caring and compassionate. That combination, if I look at life, that's what works. So what I mean by that is you could be an incredible baseball player or who knows athlete.

14:31But if outside of that, you're a complete jerk, you're not going to have a lot of fun. And if you're a great teacher, a great teacher knows curriculum, but knows how to reach these kids. So there are two parts. There's one part of how do you help somebody be solid in themselves? That's really, you know, all the praise and, you know, and appreciating who they are and getting the right things.

14:59The other part of being caring and passionate is not about your wants. Like you bake cookies for grandma, not because you like it. It's because no grandma likes cookies. So there's a place of being full of ourselves and then a place of being empty, you know, place of serving others. And so I think we need to think in terms of that balance that we need to have both. You know, there are times where you want to nurture somebody and times you want to say, no, it's time for you to go beyond, you know, your your inclinations.

15:29And the opposite of being a jerk, I think, is being overly nice where people are overstepping your boundaries. So one of the questions I've learned to ask in life is being, you know, chronic people pleaser is, why am I doing this? What is the reasoning that I'm saying yes to everything? And that's really allowed me to have a lot of light bulb moments of, OK, so maybe I don't say yes to everything. And if I am, there's a reason for it.

15:54And I'm not just blindly saying yes at my own expense. Yeah. And then we know that we grow. So if it turns out there's a period of life where we get stepped on a little bit, then we'll grow at some point. We'll think, OK, I don't need that anymore. Yes, certainly older and wiser, I say. But we want to teach those to our kids so they hopefully learn that at a younger age. Now, when I think about what's different about parents or the biggest traps that I find with parents, I think one that I discover is the two.

16:30One is that children aren't miniature adults and the younger they are, the less they aren't. So one simple example for that is you could have a very athletic 12 year old, incredibly skilled, incredible hand eye coordination, but you wouldn't give them the car to drive down the highway. You know, they don't have perspective. They don't have everything else it takes to be able to drive down a highway.

16:54And especially when we get to younger children, toddlers are not small adults. And we think by giving them choices that we're helping them. But in a lot of ways, we're really not because we're the ones that can make the choices for them. You know, it's much easier to say, wear this than to give somebody a pile of clothing because they don't know what to do.

17:21Well, I was once at a Denny's and there was a little two year old there who wasn't at the table next to us. The kid wasn't really hungry. And they tried to find what little Willie wanted to eat. And Denny has like a 70 page menu. And so they decided on something. And when the food came, the kid wasn't hungry. And so everybody's all upset. Instead to realize, no, that's not one of his things.

17:48And it saves them a little bit. And the reason is, if you looked at that same menu, you would taste the various things. You think, hmm, I don't feel like having pancakes. So I'd like something lighter. I'd like such and such. But a kid can't do that. Another one that I heard that was very interesting, that's just worth pondering. There was a study at Harvard where there was a, it was in the psychology department.

18:16And there was a photography course. And they told the students, which was true, that all of their equipment and everything they got was from a company in England. And they could use all of the material. And at the end, they could save one picture and keep that picture. So of all the pictures I took, they'd pick one. And then shortly before the very end, they told a section of people they could pick two.

18:41And then after a while, they'd have to pick which one of the two that they want. And then when they studied later, who was happy with their choice? It was the ones that didn't have that second choice. Yes. Too much choice, too much responsibility, right? Yeah. We talk to them too much. We think that that discipline is an intellectual factor. It's really not. It would be like saying to Fido, listen, Fido, why don't you sit now?

19:06Because it's really much easier if you sit instead of jumping all over me and getting your paw. It doesn't work like that. Yeah. And really understanding child development. You know, a two-year-old is different than a four-year-old vastly different than a 10-year-old. So understanding where kids' brains are, I think, then also gives us more compassion. And we're not always thinking we're doing it wrong. Exactly. We're just understanding and seeing them where they're at. Yes.

19:30And then a time to discipline or talk about what's going on is never during a time of upset. Nobody wants to learn. So a teenager, if you start to tell your teenager why they can't do something, they just see you as giving them a lecture. Yes. Yeah. Dr. Dan Siegel talks about the upstairs and the downstairs brain.

19:55Yeah. You can always say a couple of days later when they're going to sleep, remember that day you gave me a hard time? You can do better than that. Yeah. And that's plenty. Or when you're in a car ride. I think that is the best time to have honest conversations. It's not confrontational. There's a lot of distraction by looking out the window. It's a great time for a quality conversation to happen. And knowing what you make me think of as you talk, it's knowing you want to bring the best out of your kid.

20:22You love this kid. You don't want to be different. You're not critical of who they are. You love them. You want to give them the best environment possible. And you also want them to be nice people. Yes. Absolutely. And so you've been a pediatrician for 40 years. So you've seen parenting throughout the decades. Talk to us about this shift that you've witnessed. Well, so that's really the main one, thinking that it's, and it's probably always there.

20:48But it's, everybody has advice. Like it's really saying, no, let me just, you know, let me think. So a different, you know, a nice thing to think in terms of is suppose you have to figure out what to do with your child because of something that happened. You can spend some time later, the next day, who knows, when you're, have some quiet time when you're not sleeping is to revisit the thing and think, how did I do that?

21:16You know, could I have done it any differently? How would I want to do it if it came up again? And really consider the whole process kind of an educational process. Yeah. And something I see are, have you seen parenting forums where someone asks a question, 65 people respond, and they're all very different opinions. And very opinionated. Everybody knows they're right. Yes. Yes.

21:41And we're all different. So that my sense is if you really follow what makes sense to you and what feels right. And the other one is, if you do something, suppose you discipline your kid in a certain way, you look later and the kid should thrive. You should feel the kid is better. Yes. Yeah. So, so that's really a reality check. And, and you're always allowed to, to say later, gee, I was really a grump yesterday.

22:07I'm really sorry. No, that's okay. They know you're human. Yeah. And that forgiveness piece is so huge. Right. And that we're constantly growing too. Along. Well, we're emotionally growing. They're physically and emotionally growing. Yeah. Yeah. And when I was a kid growing up, my folks are kind of weird. My mom was really very strange, but I knew she loved me. That was all I needed. I could work around her shortcomings.

22:32Yeah. I want to talk about parenting triggers because we know everybody's got their triggers. And one being a tantrum, right? A lot of people in public, they're often more embarrassed by the tantrum than they are triggered about what's actually happening with their child. Talk to us about advice when you're in a moment of conflict and you're feeling yourself get angry or triggered. How do you build connection instead of adding to the conflict?

22:59Well, so stepping back in my looking, I see four different kinds of tantrums. And they're completely different with different causes and different approaches and different ways to work with them. One is the tantrum of the toddler. One is the tantrum of the kid who is beyond preschool. One is the kid with attention deficit disorder.

23:24And the other one is the kid who has some kind of neurological developmental issues. And so with the last ones, they just can't help themselves in most situations. And so there, it's just trying to make the situation as good as you can. The kids, the way you can tell the temper tantrums, and this isn't how you treat them.

23:49But the kids with attention deficit disorder like to have things their way and they blow up. And after they blow up, they're happy again. They don't understand why everybody else is mad at them. They've like, they've, they've said what they wanted to say and now they're fine. And so they don't quite realize what they're doing. They're a little bit like the toddler. So we'll go to the toddler.

24:13The problem with the toddler is they live fully in the moment. And that's the beauty of toddlerhoods. They're just totally present. So if you play with them and they laugh, the whole world laughs with them. But it's the same hand, when things don't work, they fall apart. And transitions can be particularly difficult. And tiredness. My, my, my kid's mom said to my daughter when she was three.

24:41She said, you know how mommy can tell when you're tired? When mommy's cranky, you're tired. So, so being alert and saying, wow, I'm dragging into the stores and she's exhausted and hungry. This isn't going to go well. And then, so for the toddler one, there, it really is about understanding the situation and trying to not push into something that's not going to work.

25:09So I used to, for example, because transitions were hard, we'd go to a restaurant. We'd go get pizza on Friday nights with some friends. And when my daughter was two, as we were starting to leave, I'd say, okay, let's say goodbye to the table. Goodbye, plate. Goodbye, chairs. You know, goodbye, whatever. And, you know, and that would be a little bit of a way to break, you know, break things up. Or, and because they don't do it on purpose.

25:37So you just have to read it. I saw one little kid in my office once, who was about 15 or 18 months, who was crawling on the floor. And his dad was sitting on a chair, and he was going to use his dad's legs as a bridge. So he's going to crawl under the chair and the dad's legs would be a bridge. And the dad stood up. He had no idea what was going on. The kid fell apart. You know, my bridge is gone. So distraction, avoidance is the main one, and distraction is the other one.

26:05So that, to avoid situations. So it's not so much, what do you do when you're in that bad situation? You just assess and say, how do we, you know, how do we make it so I don't get in the situation again? Yeah, and transitions essentially mean that they're being acknowledged, right? That we're not trying to power over them. That we're acknowledging their feelings, and we're helping them transition to something else. Yeah, and it's not even feelings.

26:29They just can't help it. I saw one little kid once who was sitting by a big picture window in his onesie, and it was snowing outside. So he said, out, out. And his dad was a nice guy who picked him up to get him changed to go outside. And the kid fell apart. He didn't want to go anywhere. He just wanted to magically be outside. So for that one, it's more just knowing it's not a big deal. You know, it's just the beauty of living in the moment is also, you know, the problem with living in the moment.

26:59It's, you know, you just do the best you can and try to avoid situations where you can. Yeah, and just letting them express their feelings and being okay with that. Yeah, and not even worry about it being feelings. It's really beyond feelings. It's something like, I don't know, suppose you're swimming and you're having a great time as a kid and you have to leave the water. It's like, you just can't, it's just no, you know, so it's not feelings.

27:24It's just, it's almost physical. Yeah. And it's not a big deal. Letting it happen. Yeah, it's not an emotionally big deal. Yeah. Tell us about self-esteem related to, because a part of development is building self-esteem, which is a critical thing to develop, especially as an adult. But what does it take to build genuine self-esteem? Because right now we know kids are very external.

27:48There's a lot of external motivation. We don't see a lot of intrinsic motivation, which has to do with confidence and self-esteem. Yeah, it's a great question. So there, and it's, it's the same thing for adults. My sense is there are two parts to self-esteem. There's one part, knowing that you're loved, not because of what you do, because you are. And so that's what we try to do by however we do it.

28:14And for some kids, it's harder. Some kids don't get it. You know, it's just harder for some kids. And the other part is the success you feel in the world. You know, so then we try to nurture our kids, however we nurture them. And so, you know, and, and so, so it's that parallel, but really if the nub of it is knowing that I'm loved, I'm loved as I am. And so, and you know, it ranges from, I think there can be a tendency to people make too big a deal out of wanting to praise their kids.

28:42And it's phony. You can't be phony. You have to be real. Um, so that if you really like your kid, that's, that's, that's all you need. Yeah. Um, yeah. And kids are so intuitive, right? Even when we think they're not feeling and seeing, they do feel and see everything, our energy, our body language, our tone. Yeah. So like you said, we can't fake it with them.

29:06That's it. So, um, so yeah, so there's all kinds of inner stuff that we can do an interesting little meditation that it's really kind of cool that you can just do once or every once in a while. Um, and if you have more than one kid, do it separately for each of them. Picture kid and picture surrounding them with love. And it could be the way they are today, the way they were as an infant, anywhere in between.

29:31And hold that feeling of surrounding them with love until you feel they get it. Then do the reverse. Feel the kid's love for you. It can make you cry sometimes. And are there words to say, or is that more? No, it's just this little inner thing that just helps you connect. And what you can say also is you can say at times, what is it? What does this kid need from me?

29:57Like what gift do I have for them? You know, how do I support them? Yeah. And it's different for every kid, right? Just like we know everybody has a different love language. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's right. That's right. And, um, yeah, you know, if you think of the way we are on the planet, some person's vacation could be to go skydiving and somebody else is to read on their front porch. That's true. Or sit in a backyard versus being on a tropical island.

30:25Yeah. And an interesting thing where a child's not adopted is often our kids are like us. So you can get clues from your partner or spouse and say, you know, what would you do in this situation? Like what works for you there? Dr. Schneebaum, you've worked with families who've experienced some very challenging, vulnerable circumstances. What has taught you about those children and parents and what really people need the most when they're struggling?

30:55It's hard. You know, in some way it goes down to the same thing. Like where are your roots? You know, so that as an older person now, I notice how many families have struggles and how many people have struggles and how do you stay centered while all that's going on? And you just somehow know that I can only be me and I can support people however I can, but I can't change them.

31:24You know, so I can listen to my friends' problems and be there with them, but I can't fix them. I can't make it, you know, I can't make it better. So I think one thing that's important is to just be there with people. There was a family when I did my residencies who had a child who was dying of cancer, was just like 15 months old. And fortunately that cancer is now curable.

31:48And I was chatting with them. I was close with them because they were in the hospital a lot when I was there. And I just had this thought and I said, do friends still visit you? And she said, no. Nobody comes to visit because they don't know what to say to them. So we don't have to do anything. We can just be there for people. And we don't have to take their burdens on.

32:13You know, we can. It's like the work that you do. We can be there, be open to them and know that in that is where our gift lies. We can then close the door and not take it with us because that would eat away at our other relationships and so on. And it's not our problem. It really isn't. You know, the real work we do is the work of being there for them. But then we can leave it. And I don't think we get taught that. People don't know how to listen.

32:37So one of the one of the things that we do so easily is give people advice. So if I were to go outside and sneeze, people say, have you tried this? Did you take this? What about such and such? And so to not to not jump to giving people judgments. Yeah. And not giving advice necessarily from your own perspective and your own lens, which obviously it's easier said than done, but really seeing people where they're at.

33:03And that's the part of empathy and wearing those person's shoes, which I think we often forget when we're talking down to people or talking at people or just talking. And the other person is like, hey, I'm I'm the one with the problem. Are you listening? Exactly. Right. You know, and that's something in the area of I think that if I my giving advice is like my eyes blinking so I don't get something in my eyes.

33:28It kind of protects me. I don't have to really listen if I'm giving advice, but instead forget that and just say, wow, that must be really hard. How do you do that? I tell the story in my book once I had a grandmother who is really rather difficult and alone. And I just and really, really rather tough. And one day I decided to have dinner with us. I brought Chinese food and I just decided to ask her how she survives.

33:52Like, how do you manage being alone in her physical disabilities? And when she spoke, I didn't ask her more questions. And then we went on for a while. And then she said, enough about me. How are you? And we had this wonderful conversation. So just being there for somebody is so important. Yeah. And letting them lead. And maybe they want to hear more about you and they're tired of talking about their feelings or their experiences and they just want a distraction.

34:20Yeah. And that space of connection, that's what people want. You remember, I once heard this story of or a study where two doctors went to visit some elderly folks in a nursing home. One stood and had their coat on. The other took their coat off and sat. And they asked the patients which one was there longer. It was always the one who took their coat off and sat. And that person was actually there shorter.

34:45Yeah. Yeah. I think meaningful connection really adds to longevity. And that's the piece we often we can complicate health, both of us being in health care. But there are these core, I think, items that we often forget. And that's just going back to simplicity. Right. Yeah. And connection is a part of that. Yeah. For a patient to know that you have their back. That's like the best thing in the world.

35:11Yes. Yeah. I like her. Yeah. Something else I was thinking of. Well, two things that are, I think, worth it. One is what I call family meetings. And this is with the parents. Because a ridiculous thing that happens is we marry or partner with someone and we come from completely different backgrounds and styles and everything.

35:35And all of a sudden we assume that we see things the same way. And so to have meetings, whether it's monthly or weekly, where you discuss everything from how the kids are going to how your finances are to who knows your in-laws and all kinds of things. And when I think every business has a business meeting, we don't do that as parents. So to not do it when it's a problem, but to do it as a routine.

36:02It's, you know, it's Sunday. Let's talk. And that way it takes pressure off during the week also, because, you know, hey, Sunday's coming. You can save this. We'll talk about it then. Right. Like a debriefing session. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other one that I think of sometimes is to be flexible. Don't be like everybody else. So suppose here it is, you're coming home from work and you work in an office and you're dressed for work and you come home and you like to change.

36:32Well, if you're a little kid, God just walked in the door. What do you mean, God, you want to change? What do you mean, God, you want to make dinner? So do something like have a half a sandwich at work and change into a sweatsuit. So when you come home, we can play. Or decide in the summer when it's nice out, instead of your traditional dinner, let's go to the park and have pizza. You know, just be able to see what works. Yeah. Joy and fun. Right.

36:56Sometimes we forget about that in our day. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Schneebaum, you wrote a book. I want you to tell us about it. What kind of inspired the book? You know, just all of your life lessons that you gained writing the book. I always wondered how people work and why people aren't happier than they are. And I'd seen a lot of people who had childhood trauma that lasted their whole lives.

37:25I always wondered, why is it lasting like that? And so I wondered about this thing. And over the years, developed various insights. And it got to where I finally had to say, I want to write this thing. Because I would keep listening to other people. I didn't hear anybody saying the same thing. So part of it is about thinking with the heart and thinking with the mind. And what's that really about?

37:50And then I said, if a fascinating thing that happens is whether we were loved as children or not, love is built into who we are. So what do I mean by that? No matter what kind of wretched life somebody had, if you're sitting on a park bench and a little old lady drops her shopping bag, you'd lean over and help pick things up.

38:15You're compassionate. And you don't say, wait a second, I've got to put on my cloak of compassion. And I'll go put that on. Now I can help her. No, it's who we are. And so compassion is love made practical. So we have it inside of us. Now, just as we can develop any skill, we can increase our education, we can become more physically adept, we can play a musical instrument, we can increase our experience of love.

38:44The difference is, for the outer things, we develop an outer plan. Like I'm going to do more push ups, I'm going for a run, I'm going to change my diet. We can't hold on to love that way. Instead, we open to it. It's like letting light into a window. So it's really fixing the things that get in the way. And so part of the book is about that. It's about how do we heal the childhood hurts that we suffered?

39:11How do we worry less? How do we how do we make sense of our feelings and emotions in a way that works? How do we have better relationships? And that's what the book is about. Yeah. I always think of being soft, but strong. Right? Yeah. They're two different parts. It's like if you think of a pair of scissors to only have one blade wouldn't work. So one part is our, our intellect is really about self preservation.

39:38You know, so let's say, suppose you're a lifeguard. It might be your heart wants to dive in and save someone. But your intellect says, wait, what's the safest, best way to do that? And so it's really combining both. You know, so let's say your kid, your kid wants something. You think, gee, I could imagine why they want that. But you realize, no, that's not the right thing here. You know, it's just whatever that balance is. And so, yeah. So, yeah.

40:03What would be your words of wisdom, life's philosophy or words that you just live by every single day? Serving love. Serving love. Yeah. Because the thing that happens is if you think of the love, that's the heart love. It's nourishing. It's strengthening. It's filling. It's everlasting. It's transcendent.

40:27It's across cultures and across time. And when you feel that, you feel stronger. You feel better. You enjoy life more. And that's what anybody wants. It's what everybody wants. And so, and we can give that without bending over and getting stepped on because we have the other side of ourselves of being rational and being reasonable and realizing where this isn't working. I mean, I love this conversation.

40:53I can talk about this all the time. I feel it applies to every single aspect of our life, personal, professional, every moment that comes up in our life, everything that happens throughout the day, it all comes back to love. Dr. Shivan, where can our listeners find out more about you and your book? Where can they purchase that? So the easiest thing is the website for the book is biggerhearted.com.

41:17So biggerhearted. And then the book is available everywhere. At the website, I also am offering workshops and individual consultations on both parenting and on healing inner hurts and on, you know, living life more, enjoying life more. So there are ongoing workshops that can be gotten. And yeah, just stay connected. And also, I'm building up my social media presence.

41:43But so on LinkedIn, I'm doing a thing for helping physicians who are suffering burnout. How do you reverse burnout? That's a big topic. Yeah. Yeah. There too, if you don't enjoy your patients and have this kind of open relationship with patients where you can listen to them, you're not going to enjoy medicine. Yeah. And we are human beings, right? We're meant to feel and we're meant to connect and we're meant to lead with love.

42:09And if we try to act like robots, we can do that for so long. But then burnout just means you've had no joy in what you're doing, right? Like some people will say, it doesn't feel like hard work, even though they're busy. Because it's what they love and they do it with passion and joy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the fire of enthusiasm burns out. There's no flame in there. Yeah. Yeah. You got to keep going with that.

42:33Yeah. So get the book. I'm in the process of finishing up the audio book version. So soon, maybe another month, that should be out. Awesome. And I will be sure to share all of that in our episode show notes. Anything to leave us by? I mean, this conversation has been so profound, but I'd like to end it with your words. Yeah. Don't be hard on yourself. Know that you're perfect the way you are.

42:58Your kids are forgiving. It's like a puppy. They love you like crazy. Yeah. So just be the best you can and just be yourself. Yeah. And with that, I want to greatly thank you for being on the podcast. I am already going to invite you back. So I hope you can find some time. Excellent. Good. It doesn't get better than this. Yes. And thank you so much. I've loved our conversation. You're delightful.

43:22For sharing your big heart with all of us. And to the listeners and the viewers, thank you as always for tuning in until next time. Thank you for listening to the Baby Steps Nutrition Podcast with your host, Argavan N. We hope you enjoyed our deep dive into all the tips and tricks you and your family can use to make daily life a little easier.

43:48If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to support the podcast, please leave a rating and review, share with others, and follow us on social media. Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Baby Steps Nutrition Podcast. As always, you can head over to babystepsnutrition.com to sign up for our email list, as well as check out all the links and resources in the show notes.

44:14See you next time. Tune in. Feel great.